Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 10:27 PM (in response to bcrich1234bc)Re: Need help with creating metal tones
So i've read this pretty awesome guide
it covers A LOT of stuff, and it's a little hard to soak up.
Still if anyone has tips or anything else like metalcore patches i would love to hear them.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 15, 2012 11:11 AM (in response to bcrich1234bc)Re: Need help with creating metal tones
If I were home I'd give you a screen shot, but I'll try to list this out how I have my Treadplate patch setup. This is the order I have everything in as you would see it on the screen using the HD desktop tool:
Screamer > EQ > Noise Gate > Tube Compressor > Amp > Mixer > Reverb > Delay (use delay for my leads)
I don't have the exact specs of everything, but this should give you a pretty good base and you can tweak the settings from there.
I do know I have the amp gain for rhythms at about 7 and the amp volume cranked to about 7.5 or 8. You can adjust the master volume to turn it down, but you want the amp volume up because from my understanding the HD amp models respond in regards to volume/gain just like the actual amps do. Bass it straight up, treble is about 7 and presence is a little less than 5. Everything on the Screamer is straight up (5) except I turn the treble up on that to about 7.
Hope this helps or at least gives you a starting point. I'm also messing around with the Fireball (ENGL) with pretty much the same setup as above and that amp feels a little tighter.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 15, 2012 11:18 AM (in response to unclejason)Re: Need help with creating metal tones
Oh, I meant to add that I use the Treadplate cabinet (4x12) as well with the Treadplate amp. For one track I use the 87 condenser mic and another the 421 (those rhythms are usually panned hard left/right). For my leads I use the 87 mic, and I also add just a little more bass and mids to my lead tracks.
Currently Being ModeratedMar 15, 2012 3:06 PM (in response to bcrich1234bc)Re: Need help with creating metal tones
yeah, i wrote that guide, and I know it can get a little long-winded. Let me make a few quick points:
1) Stick with the Uber, Treadplate, and Fball models. You can get a JCM where you want it, but it's much more difficult than tweaking those 3 models. Of those, the Treadplate and Fball are already fairly dialed in for the tone you want. With the Uber, you'll have to apply some pre-EQ or use a Screamer or Classic Distortion in front to suck out some of the flubby bass.
2) The way your distortion tone sounds depends on what signal you feed your amp model. This means even if you use someone else's patch; the tone of your guitar and pickups (as well as style of play) might be different resulting in different tone. To get a tight metalcore tone, the traditional formula is noise gate > [compressor] > boost pedal/EQ > high gain amp. The compressor lets you thicken up the tone without having to add more distortion and make the tone overly distorted and cause it to lack clarity in a mix; but it is optional depending on your tone. The boost pedal is generally used with the Drive setting very low. It is really just a filter - it sucks out some of the lows and very high-end, which can cause a distorted tone to sound flubby or gritty, respectively. They were formerly used to feed the amp a hotter signal to get more distortion out of it, but modern high gain amps don't need a boost to get that amount of gain - they are mostly used as a filter. You'll see people max their Level or Ouput parameter, but that's completely unnecessary. They can also provide some slight compression with Drive set off 0, to thicken up the tone, like the compressor. Or they'll have mild breakup which distorts nicely when it hits the amp (but sometimes it can make the tone grainy). If you just want some filtering, you don't NEED to use a boost pedal. You can optionally use EQ. Every amp responds a bit differently to having certain frequencies boosted or cut. I find around 700 -1500 HZ really draws out the djenty tone of an amp, but too much makes it sound a little thin or overly processed. 0-150 HZ can make the tone flubby. 150-350 can thicken up the punch to the tone, but get fuzzy when given too much. 350-700 really depends on the amp, but it can often make it a little buzzy or more hard rock then djent. So if you start by going straight into the amp and turn up the drive, you can try to identify what is wrong with the tone, then start trying to dial in or out frequencies or see how messing with the parameters on a boost pedal changes the tone.
3) I like the full amp models, but don't start by tweaking the DEP's (Master Volume, Sag, Hum, Bias, Bias X). If anything turn down the Master Volume to about 30. The full amps seem to sound a little thicker and more aggressive to me. Once you've dialed in a good tone, tweak the DEP's to make it great, but treat them like a real amp. Playing with Master Volume is simple and easy and where you should start. Changing Bias or Bias X is the next place to go. Bias can make the tone colder and tighter at higher values, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Changing Sag and Hum are a little more like modifying the amp. Remember that the DEP's affect the tone less and less as the Master Volume DEP is turned down. In general, a high gain tone is derived from pre-amp drive, not power amp drive. As you turn up Master Volume, the high gain amp models tend to start to compress, then add a little grit to the tone. August Burns Red seem to have a pretty smooth tone to me. I wouldn't set Master Volume above 60-70%. I think anywhere from 30-65% will get you the right tone.
4) So now we're to cabs/mics. Are you running to a power amp or direct to computer? Set your output mode accordingly. If to a real cab, I tend to set my cab model on the Pod to "no cab", as otherwise you get "live-voiced cabs" which tend to suck out the high-end and leave the tone too muffled. If I'm going to a computer, I find the onboard cab/mic sims aren't great. They all sound a bit washed out or noisy at some spot in the frequency spectrum. I like the Tread V-30, Uber, and Greenbacks 4x12's using the 57 off axis mic and the XXL using the 409 Dyn. That being said, I prefer a more complex set up. I use two amps, both the same model, and use two differenct cabs, usually the Tread V-30 with 57 on axis mic and the XXL V-30 with 57 off axis. This seems to provide a solid frequency response from the very lows to very highs. I cover this in the Dual Cab section of my guide if you want more info.
5) The EQ's on the amp models won't get you everywhere. It'll pay off to try to learn how post-amp EQ'ing affects the tone. Focus on the Parametric and Studio EQ effects. They are the most versatile.
6) Adding BS on top the signal like phasers, quick delays can't get you a good tone. It can only help mask how crappy a crap tone is. Dial in a good tone first. Worry about effects later. If you are recording, you'll get a much better tone double or quad tracking your guitars, than by adding a phaser or quick delay. Live, however, you can use that stuff to thicken up the tone a little. I don't like it though.
7) If the tone sounds WAY off, that's probably a setup or connection issue. Trying to dial in your patch around that is a waste of time.
As long-winded as my guide is, you don't have to read it front to back. i tried to keep it on topic but be comprehensive. used it to consult instead of reading it like a novel.